|
|  |
| |
|
| | The Sigfood - The Fine Wining & Dining Network Network is not currently active and cannot accept new posts | | Slow food movement | Views: 2087 | | Jan 04, 2007 6:54 am | | Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | On Tuesdays "Chick Eats" is on Travel and Living and this week they had an interesting episode on the Slow food movement in Melboune.
Is there a Chapter in India? I would love to become an active member.
Knowing where your food comes from and bypassing middle men is always beneficial ultimately to the farmer and the consumer. The major disadvantage is that food becomes seasonal and quite localized.
Malini
http://www.nakeddesserts.com Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 04, 2007 7:21 am | | re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | In India, it's hard to bypass the middle-man. Unless you're willing to drive miles to the nearest village mandi. And even there, you'll still have to deal with an aggregator.
Buying direct from the farmer is also impractical as he has say an acre of cabbage. He'd rather sell it at his farm, as a lot, to some one for X rupees rather than 100 people, at his farm, for X+2 rupees. It's too much of a headache for him to deal with that many customers.
Then again, I could be wrong.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3746520.stmPrivate Reply to Gautam | | Jan 04, 2007 9:17 am | | re: re: Slow food movement | # | 
Mr.Mojo Risin | | This idea is very much in practice here too, huge retail giants do source their products from farmers directly so as to get and give better rates. In this case there only one huge middleman..the retail giant..lol.. Private Reply to Mr.Mojo Risin | | Jan 06, 2007 7:05 am | | re: re: re: Slow food movement | # | 
Chanchal Roy | | There is actually a dividing line..
A farmer can sell most of his produce wholesale, while he can still retain a part of it for retail sales through a window.
Out here in Saudi Arabia.. there are a lot of green house type farms halfway (near Ras Tanura) between Jubail and Dammam.. and all these guys actually sell into the Dammam main Mandi..
However they have a few highway side shops where they sell their daily produce.. Some things like cucumbers, tomatoes, brinjals, greens like Palak & Methi and a few others are there everyday, but you get beet, turnips etc.. maybe twice a week.
Apart from this, you also get a lot of fresh fruits like oranges, melons, etc at these shops.
I usually drop in to pick up a few things whenever possible.
Private Reply to Chanchal Roy | | Jan 06, 2007 8:05 am | | re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | I seriously doubt whether a few "headaches" will deter a farmer from selling to the public directly. Especially when he will be getting "X+2" for the product.
A farmer who just grows cabbage can team with his neighbor who just grows carrots and put up a stall together. Or he can make Kimchee out one half of his produce and sell it obviously for "X+5" in the stall.
To get fresh, seasonal produce and teach your children that vegetables don't come out a plastic bag, they do possess flavor and not just smell like pesticide, driving a few miles is worth it all.
It is astonishing how we have compromised on quality all in the name of convenience.
Malini
http://www.nakeddesserts.comPrivate Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 06, 2007 10:23 am | | re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | Kimchi? You can't be serious.
The average Indian farmer is happy enough to find labour to keep his fields in good order. And given that, for cabbage, he'll get something like 15000kgs per acre, making kimchi or putting up a stall and selling produce, with or without, his neighbours produce is not really sustainable. The premium he'll derive from this cannot justify the extra effort that'll go into doing this activity. The scale needed to justify this kind of activity just doesn't, and will not, exist.
And the Indian consumer isn't about to drive for a few hours to buy his vegetables. The farmer is satisfied to have someone buy his entire produce, from the farm.
I'd be happy cutting out some of the middlemen, (The APMC is nothing more than a rigged monopoly/cartel) giving them better access to credit lines and technology and providing some sort of cold chain transport system.
The Economist had an interesting article on this and said,
"Organic food, which is grown without man-made pesticides and fertilisers, is generally assumed to be more environmentally friendly than conventional intensive farming, which is heavily reliant on chemical inputs. But it all depends what you mean by “environmentally friendly”. Farming is inherently bad for the environment: since humans took it up around 11,000 years ago, the result has been deforestation on a massive scale. But following the “green revolution” of the 1960s greater use of chemical fertiliser has tripled grain yields with very little increase in the area of land under cultivation. Organic methods, which rely on crop rotation, manure and compost in place of fertiliser, are far less intensive. So producing the world's current agricultural output organically would require several times as much land as is currently cultivated. There wouldn't be much room left for the rainforest."
http://www.economist.com/world/international/displayStory.cfm?story_id=8380592 Private Reply to Gautam | | Jan 07, 2007 9:11 am | | re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | I am actually dead serious. It is time to start eating seasonally. It is time to start farming seasonally. It is time to re-train your taste buds and adjust your eating habits to the seasons.
It is time to get back to alternating between fresh and preserved (read "preserved" NOT "processed") food products. Consumption patterns have to change. Nutritional needs have to be met intelligently not blindly. I am in no way saying it is going to be easy.
Blindly farming IR8 rice year after year has just stripped the land of all nurtrients in Tanjore district. The Green revolution had turned sour a long time ago. These so called "super seeds" and farming techniques have always aimed to beat the seasons and nature, instead of understanding and adapting them to gain maximum benefits.
If driving a few miles is an inconvenience then go ahead and pump the human body full of pesticides and swallow a handful of tablets to keep alive.
The rainforest is being cleared at this alarming rate by professional loggers from the developed nations for wood, paper and tissues! Suggesting that ecological and intelligent farming will leave no room for the rainforest is just asinine!
Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 07, 2007 2:32 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # | 
Shalaka Paradkar | | Malini, what a great idea. Actually if we go back to our traditional eating patterns, there is a wonderful seasonality to the foods consumed. For instance, we ate til (sesame) sweets on Makar Sankrant that's coming up soon. Fortified with groundnuts and jaggery -- all the good stuff to keep one warm through winter. All of Maharashtra's coastal communities turn vegetarian during Shravan-- the sound ecological reason being it allows fish to spawn in those crucial monsoon months, and the waters don't get overfished.
In India, its still possible to eat seasonal foods, or even source them directly from the farmer. In Delhi, our office in Okhla had farms just across the road, and there would be hardly a couple of hours' interval from veggies coming out of the soil and into the pan.
Even in Mumbai, we used to have a variety of veggie vendors called Vasaiwalas, who used to bring fresh produce from thier own farms in Vasai, typically leafy greens and plantains.(However, these are probably not organically farmed, since the farmers have small holdings and use chemicals to maximise yields.)
The tricky part is eating seasonally in places like Dubai. Even if I want to be an ethical consumer I can't -- most of the good fruits and veggies are imported from other countries. Apart from fish and potatoes, nothing seems to be harvested here. The few small farms produce just enough to meet their own requirements.
I would love to help the environment by changing my diet, but I just don't know how! Private Reply to Shalaka Paradkar | | Jan 07, 2007 7:10 pm | | re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # | 
Rhea | | In Pune, there are areas like Vishrantwadi and Yerawada where a lot of small farmrs sell their produce in the markets (atleast they were there around 7-8 years ago)...
But in a megapolis like Mumbai, buying direct from a farmer is just not an option.. the closest you can get to that sort of stuff is kadi patta, chillies or whatever one can manage to grow on a window sill or balcony...Private Reply to Rhea | | Jan 08, 2007 5:46 am | | Slow food movement | # |
| | How about a veggie patch in the balcony or terrace ? It is really amazing how much you can grow in a small 6x4 patch...
we have a small one in the backyard and we grow methi(three rows is plenty), tomoto (just one little plant and you have to throw away tomotoes in the end:), Peas (will have to train the vines with two stalks and thread) and carrots ( you need the depth...maybe not possible indoors)
We also get and occational potato from the eyes we had put in six years back :)
SPrivate Reply to | | Jan 08, 2007 5:47 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | If we're talking in broad Utopian generalities, most of what you write holds true. But given the real world we live in and all of its attendant worries, of declining land productivity, water shortages and increased food security pressures, it's unrealistic to:
1. Expect such large scale food reforms, especially in the agricultural sector.
2. Expect such large scale change in dietary habits. It's a losing battle.
3. Believe that the organic mantra is a cure-all prophylactic.
Not that this should deter anyone from trying but resources would be better utilized in ways that have realistic outcomes.
On the flip side, Cuba is an interesting role model.
"Cuba has become the poster child for a transition away from an agricultural economy based on fossil fuel inputs and for a society focused on self-sufficiency. Strangely, it may owe much of its success in this regard to its relative backwardness and its isolation from the world community. The implications for so-called modern industrial countries in a world approaching peak oil couldn't be more striking. "
http://resourceinsights.blogspot.com/2006/12/cubas-strange-path.html
Then again, let's also pray for world peace.Private Reply to Gautam | | Jan 08, 2007 8:10 am | | Slow food movement | # |
Chanchal Roy | | There are 3 or 4 distinct issue we seem to be discussing.
Resource utilization.. do you know that it actually takes 700 liters of water to get 1 glass of orange juice!!! and even in places like Saudi Arabia where all water is from desalination plants, Saudi still exports Oranges in addition to wheat and boast of the having the Worlds Largest and the Second Largest Dairy farms (Al Marai & Safa).. check the Guinness Book!!
What it has is OIL and this resource in turn can make other resources available!!
Hybrids and Gen Modified foods are here to stay. Everyone knows "Organic" foods are the best but how many people remember this doctrine when they catch a burger and just tuck in a salad at a fast food joint.
As regards seasonal or local choice.. just go into any rural area in any third world country and the only FRESH thing you can buy is what is produced locally and seasonally. Anyone here who bought an Alfanso in Dec in Mumbai???
BUT, IN comes packaging, preservation and distribution and you can buy 6 varieties of mangoes in all its forms.. juice, pulp, slices, paste all year round at Walmarts or Geants or Carrefour at prices sometimes cheaper than the fresh ones in season!! The whole chain extends to a wide range of foods from meat to fish to veggies.
Why just raw foods.. all expats living away from home can tuck into "Sarson da saag" and "Methi Malai Mutter" from the ready to eat pouches through out the year!!
Its all about choice and technology..
Kitchen Gardens.. Like Sanjay, a lot of people actually do a bit a kitchen gardening, but that’s more of a hobby then a necessity!!. It’s a lot of fun to serve home grown cherry tomatoes to your guests!
Private Reply to Chanchal Roy | | Jan 11, 2007 6:23 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | I am talking about Utopian "specifics". Large scale agricultural reforms are very much possible. Use the same information dispersion techniques that you used during the "green revolution". Craft the messages into pros and cons and stress on the long term success of this process and the ecological sustainability. Set up information centres, seed distribution programs, monetary assitance schemes, training centres. The only long term good that came out of the chemical fertilizer revolution was that the widespread communication channels were up and running. Now the same channels can be used to spread the message.
Simply put, as a small scale farmer you will not be forced to sell your farm in the next 20 years and move to the cities to beg for a living. Your children can continue to till the land using scientific (read "scientific" not "chemical" or "artificial")methods. Gee, I don't know how to get more specific that this!
Large scale changes in dietry habits will be slow to come by. Once you involve organizations like CSE and commission independent research bodies then the stimuli for change will occur.
The major selling point of the organic movement is reviving strains of vegetables, fruits and grains that have been lost, maintain the taste and nutrional value of the produce and finally leave behind a healthy planet for our children. Not a wasteland!
People sold on the "easy and convenient" ways of life are welcome to stand on the side lines and sneer, but the need for another agriculture revolution cannot be denied.
MaliniPrivate Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 11, 2007 6:55 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Chanchal Roy | | Utopia will always be..
But what about ground realities.. with the rise in population and increase in population densities can "a completely Organic regime" produce enough food to feed. Produce at costs that are workable, and under present air/water conditions and as widely as possible.
The development of hybrids and Gen-mods happened precisely for this reason.
May be a lateral think on how to make the new feed stock for humanity more safer, is the need of the day.
Private Reply to Chanchal Roy | | Jan 11, 2007 8:51 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | Malini, you had me interested up until CSE figured in your scheme. That and believing that people would pay more interest to agricultural reforms based on "...leave[ing] behind a healthy planet for our children" when people don't really seem to care about leaving a neighborhood filthy. The fear is too distant for people to care.
There's a substantial difference between agreeing on the need for an agricultural revolution and actually fomenting one.
It's still Utopian. And the suggestions are only apple-pie-and-motherhood level rhetoric.
Chanchal, your questions are exactly what we need to think about.
Private Reply to Gautam | | Jan 11, 2007 9:07 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | Gautam, I don't care to convert you from your consumerist cycle of bliss. And you don't know me well enough to conclude whether this is just rhetoric or in practise.
Literally speaking, if you have ever tasted an apple from a refrigerated shelf and one from a stand in an orchard, you might get a grip of what I am talking about.
No it is not Utopian. It is just tough.
Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 11, 2007 9:40 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | I'd happily live as a (and if you're not trying to convert me, who you've acknowledged as your demographic then who are you trying to convert?) convert. But for now, this is the area I work in so I know the ground realities far better than most.
As for it being high-level rhetoric, it isn't based on you as a person, it's based solely on what you've put forth.
While an apple from an orchard is undeniably fabulous, what about people who don't live near an apple orchard? Should they learn to love oranges instead? Deny choices based on limiting technological advances to further limited goals?
Hardly... Private Reply to Gautam | | Jan 11, 2007 9:58 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | Chanchal, we need to go back to the basics. Large scale conversion to orgaic farming is not going to be possible at once. It would be ideal to start with the small farmers, in one district, in one state of our country.
An account of the indigenous seed and plant varieties that have been replaced, vanished needs to be taken.
Then we need to audit the state of the acres under cultivation. Current agriculture patterns, nutrient deprivation, irrigation facilities needed and the monetary situation of the farmers.
Then we need to go back to the lab and research the best crop rotation techniques, bio degradable plant fertilizers (which are already available), bio degradable insecticides suited for the particular region.
Well, we can start there!
Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 11, 2007 10:08 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | You don't know whether I am involved in the area or not. Just stick to the topic on hand.
Artichokes are not widely available in India, go right ahead if you prefer to eat the salty canned crap delivered to your departmental store thanks to technological advances.
It is time to look at the so called "choices" on hand. Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Jan 11, 2007 11:05 am | | re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Gautam | | Fair enough.
Canned artichokes aren't a fair example. What about chilled or frozen artichokes? And those are personal choices that cannot legitimately be impinged upon in a free-market economy.
And we can't forget Malthus and his dire predictions but I'm looking at this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organic_farming#Productivity
and wondering if perhaps a case can be made.
Private Reply to Gautam | | Jan 13, 2007 1:44 pm | | Slow food movement | # |
Chanchal Roy | | Malini, I absolutely see the merits of Organic Farming, Organic Poultry, Natural Fishing... but all I am saying is that considering the demographical patterns that exist today worldwide, its difficult to feed the populace based on Organic Methods at today's prices..
I am not saying for once that we shouldn't make a effort in that direction... but there is a cost and there is a scenario where these experiments must begin.
Holistically speaking an average human lives longer and is more healthy than he ever was. This is the result of a lot of things.. food, environment, medication, lifestyle etc etc.. but the moot point is that if this hybrid stuff was actually detrimental to human growth in any major way, the effects would have shown.
I agree also about some species going extinct.. but that is evolution.. Saw this one on Nat Geo.. even though we have lost a huge number of species of flora and fauna, we today have the highest variety of living species that ever lived at any single point in time!!
We must make an effort to save as many species as possible at least for the sake of research, but out of say 50 species of rice today, say 20 are not economically viable to be farmed commercially, then these species must be stored away in labs and hobby farms.
Commercial food growing and distribution is not just a business issue but also a political one.. A nation needs to feed its people and with the given amount of areable land, water and able labour available, it must choose a range of species that (a) Firstly - completely feeds the population, (b) Secondly - is sellable via trade and (c) thirdly - offers a choice.
As regards tinned and packaged food, it’s a choice. Do you think without packaging, would a person living in the Middle East, ever see a mango or a banana!! Not everyone is a connoisseur of food stuff and in most cases its always about having an option… living away from home, a frozen Ashoka Paratha (fried on a saucepan) with MTR Punjabi chole tastes absolutely yummmmmy!
Private Reply to Chanchal Roy | | Jan 14, 2007 6:46 am | | re: Slow food movement | # | 
Theresa Varghese | | What an interesting thread. Inteligent, serious discussions.......till it tapered off into personal jibes.
Even utopia (as we call it) can be possible if mankind looked at the world around him in a holistic way. For this, we need to start young. Look at the educational system in this country. Apart from churning out a whole lot of engineers, doctors, IT professionals, etc, can we claim any pride in the KIND of people we are producing? Private Reply to Theresa Varghese | | Jan 15, 2007 3:48 am | | re: Slow food movement | # |
Malini Suryanarayanan | | Recently I found this letter posted on the site of Whole Foods which is a large grocery retail chain in the US that sells organic products. They also source from local farmers. The letter is written by John Mackey the co-founder and CEO of Whole Foods and makes for aninteresting read.
The letter is in response to The Omnivore’s Dilemma, a book in which the author had questioned Whole Foods "organic" policies.
http://www.wholefoods.com/blogs/jm/archives/2006/05/an_open_letter_1.html
Private Reply to Malini Suryanarayanan | | Feb 02, 2008 8:00 am | | re: re: re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Ketan Dand | | Hi all,
My humble two cents:-
1.] Same or more quantity can be grown Organic farms as from conventional farms.
2.] Chemicals used in farming harm human beings, pollute the land and the water which runs off these farms, which ultimately pollutes our drinking water.
3.] Regular use of chemicals makes it imperative to use more and more of the same to keep yields constant. At many places land has become so saline that its refuses to yield anything.
4.] If its not possible to feed all humans with organic farming, and thats a big if, is organic farming the problem or is it the number of human beings? One should seek to solve the problem, not seek to adjust to it till infinity
5.] More and more fertile land is being acquired worldwide for industrial and residential use. This is part of the problem of reduced agricultural production.
6.] Lastly, if I, in your presence, sprayed a pesticide on an apple and gave it to you to eat, would you eat it? Well, the news if that we all eat such apples and other foods excepting that when its been drenched in pesticides we are not around to see it. Washing it with water before eating?? Ha!!
Above mail is in all humility, please.
Best Regards,
Ketan DandPrivate Reply to Ketan Dand | | Feb 02, 2008 8:08 am | | re: re: Slow food movement | # |
Ketan Dand | | And yeah sorry, for double posting, but I am setting up a home delivery chain for certified organic food in Mumbai, and yes I buy directly from the farmer. Its been one hell of an experience. Couple of "interesting" things you might like to know:-
1. Govt does not permit selling certified organic food in paper packets but only in plastic packets!! If I sell in paper packets, I stand to lose my organic certification. :-) Ripley's believe it or not here I come!
2. Govt has NO regulations for retailing certified organic food in India. Anything goes. All norms are only for export. :-)
And since I am interested in the organic food business, my earlier post needs to be read keeping in mind that I might be obviously prejudiced. But I can prove the points stated in it to everyone's satisfaction. Not trying to be combative here, just trying to contribute to the discussion.
Best Regards,
Ketan DandPrivate Reply to Ketan Dand | | Feb 02, 2008 8:33 am | | Slow food Bombay | # |
I S | | Dear all,
I have just picked up this thread, I joined Sigfood quite recently.
For those interested in slow food movement, there is already a Delhi convivium; we are in process of setting up a Bombay one. The launch date is 19th February. Carlo Petrini, the founder of slow food international, will be in Bombay for it.
If you are interested, pls message me.
One clarification - slow food does NOT equate to organic food, it is more about eating seasonally, preserving traditions and supporting local producers.
Thank you.
IshitaPrivate Reply to I S | | Feb 10, 2008 8:01 am | | re: Slow food Bombay | # |
Chanchal Roy | | Nice to see this thread resurrected!!
Private Reply to Chanchal Roy | | |
| |
| |
